Back when he was an avowed atheist, J Warner Wallace put his skills as a cold-case homicide detective to work investigating the claims of the Gospels and became a follower of Jesus. Now he is a speaker, apologist, and an author as well as a Senior Fellow at the Colson Center for Christian Worldview, an adjunct professor of apologetics at Biola University, and a faculty member at Summit Ministries.
I’ve spoken with him on previous episodes about his books Cold Case Christianity and Person of Interest, and he’s back on to talk about this latest book: The Truth in True Crime: What Investigating Death Teaches Us About Life.
We’ll discuss our culture’s fascination with true crime and murder mysteries and the important life lessons that Wallace learned over his career investigating real-life cases and what these lessons teach us about ourselves and our Creator.
In our conversation we’ll talk about the importance of humility, how the Gospel on impacts every area of life, and the cautionary lessons we learn from the bad guys he’s helped put away. The Truth in True Crime takes lessons learned from crime scene investigations and, more importantly, found in the pages of Scripture and distills them into 15 principles that everyone should know and pursue.
Listen to the Conversation
Meet Our Guest
J. Warner Wallace is a cold-case homicide detective, popular national speaker and best-selling author. He continues to consult on cold-case investigations while serving as a Senior Fellow at the Colson Center for Christian Worldview, an adjunct professor of apologetics at Biola University, and a faculty member at Summit Ministries. Learn more at ColdCaseChristianity.com.
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Additional Resources
- Pick up a copy of The Truth in True Crime
- Access additional resources at TheTruthInTrueCrime.com
- Listen to Previous Interviews with J Warner Wallace
- Other books by J Warner Wallace
The Truth in True Crime: What Investigating Death Teaches Us About the Meaning of Life
For decades, cold-case homicide detective J. Warner Wallace investigated the causes behind deaths and murders, chasing one lead after another as he attempted to solve the case. Several of these cases remain open, unsolved mysteries.
But even those that haven’t yet revealed the identity of the killer do expose the truths of human nature: what’s important to us, what threatens our well-being, and what causes us to flourish.
Read the Transcript
Clay Kraby: Thanks for joining me once again on the Reasonable Theology podcast.
J. Warner Wallace: Well, thanks for having me. I’ve been looking forward to this interview.
Clay Kraby: Yeah, I think this makes number four. So, you’re still the reigning champion of return guests for the podcast?
J. Warner Wallace: That is always the goal, to make sure that no one gets ahead of me.. At least let me know if I need to get back on again to beat somebody else out of this competition.
Clay Kraby: I’ll give you a heads-up if someone’s sneaking for your title.
J. Warner Wallace: Good. Good.
Clay Kraby: So, the newest book is Truth in True Crime: What Investigating Death Teaches Us About the Meaning of Life. You’ve been a homicide detective for many years. What do you make of our culture’s fascination with true crime shows, murder mysteries, books, and podcasts? Even when I was young, Law and Order was popular, but it seems more popular than ever. What do you think of that and all the spin-offs?
J. Warner Wallace: Yeah, you know what? I try not to be too philosophical about it. Usually, the answer is simple. I think it’s in our base nature to be interested in solving mysteries and figuring out who the bad guy is. The best-kept secret about Dateline episodes, and I’ve been in a bunch of them, is that when we get with the producer, the case is typically resolved. Often, we’ve already been in trial, or we’re about to go to trial, so we already know who the bad guy is. But of course, when they tell the story, they script it in a way that doesn’t reveal who that person is until the last segment or near the end.
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They want to unwrap it in a way that gives us that experience of being the first to solve it while watching with our friends. But I also read an interesting article about how true crime fans are predominantly female. The columnist suggested it’s because women are often the victims of these crimes, so they watch these shows as cautionary tales to see if there’s anything they can prevent in their own lives. That’s interesting because my book is really about 15 crime stories and 15 cautionary tales, showing 15 ways humans have messed up and how we could flip that script and flourish if we just didn’t do that. So, these are 15 rules for life, illustrated by 15 common mistakes people make, especially in crimes against persons, like assaults, sex crimes, domestic violence, and murders. When you work in that category, you see a lot of ways people either avoid being a victim or unfortunately become one. It’s about understanding the dark side of human nature, which is always of interest because we’re looking to see if there’s something in this episode that we should be wary of in our own lives.
Clay Kraby: Yeah, and certainly, it’s a different experience in real life on your side of things compared to someone sitting on the couch watching the latest Netflix drama. There’s definitely an odd, maybe somewhat unhealthy element to so much of it being entertainment at this point. But the reason for it, as you say, is understandable.
J. Warner Wallace: Yeah, well, in truth, it’s stranger than fiction, right? People see that. You can watch movies that are scripted, but what’s interesting about these cases is that they’re real. They reflect how we behave, especially at critical moments. Often, the people who commit these crimes are ordinary people who do horrific things just once. It makes you pause and think, how did this person get to that place? And you realize it could be anyone. Their marriage or job stresses aren’t much different from ours. It’s humbling. It gives you a proper assessment of who we are as humans.
Clay Kraby: And as you mentioned, your experiences often come way after the fact, right? You’re investigating a crime that happened years ago, and everyone else might know the suspect as a great neighbor or the nice mailman.
J. Warner Wallace: Yeah, no doubt. In this book, I included cases from when I was working gangs, fresh murders, and cold cases. Some cases are solved 25 years later, long after I retired. You keep your fingers in them, consulting on these cases until they finally close or get so old that you can’t work them. This gives you a long view of human nature because you see how people change over decades. It’s humbling to see that this could be anybody.
Clay Kraby: Wow. We’ve talked about some of your previous books like Person of Interest and Cold Case Christianity. A lot of that was your unique experience and approach to apologetics. But Truth in True Crime is different. Could you share a little about the format and premise of this book? How do you approach it differently?
J. Warner Wallace: What makes it different is the “rules for life” side of it. It’s full of practical wisdom on how, if the Christian worldview is true, it impacts our daily life. It’s trending in apologetics and self-help categories. These are ancient principles on the pages of the New Testament. If you live as though Christianity were true, you’d embrace 15 principles that would change your life for the better immediately. They’re not easy principles, but they are life-changing. It turns out that living a life designed by the creator means bending your knee to His suggestions. People will read chapters and think, “I didn’t see that one coming.” But you can see it all over the New Testament. I’ve always been hesitant to use scripture just to show how Christianity works, but these principles work because they describe us as we really are.
Clay Kraby: And as they rightly say, all truth is God’s truth. You’re discovering these, evaluating them, and sharing them from your experiences in crime scene investigations, supported by secular studies. They’re true because that’s how God has designed things to work well for humans to flourish. So, it’s not surprising you can learn them in other ways, and it’s certainly not surprising to find them rooted in scripture.
J. Warner Wallace: Exactly. These principles work because they align with our nature created by the creator, not just our cultural moment. It’s in our biology. This advice is ancient and won’t change. We can move away from it for a season, but we will do so at our peril. Eventually, we’ll swing back because it’s unsustainable to move away from God’s design for our lives.
Clay Kraby: And I think we’re due for one of those pendulum swings. In the last decade, culture has been running free from previous constraints. There’s been enough evidence that it’s not working so well. This book can help point people to why these principles work and why they help someone flourish. Why do you think your role as a crime scene investigator, a cold case detective, made it possible to pick up on these lessons more acutely?
J. Warner Wallace: It’s the critical moments when crimes occur. If you didn’t know what was in my mug, the surest way to find out is to bump it. Whatever spills out is what’s in there. People are good at putting up a veneer, but when bumped by life’s traumas and pressures, it reveals who we really are. These breaking points strip away our game face. It’s humbling because it shows that but for the grace of God, we haven’t been bumped in that way. It’s a field leveler. The world isn’t divided into good and bad people, but between humble and proud people. Are we willing to submit to the divine? It’s in those moments we see who we really are.
Clay Kraby: Yeah, and humility is crucial. It’s a proper assessment of who you are through the lens of scripture. Understanding who you are before God and keeping your pride in check in all areas of life.
J. Warner Wallace: Absolutely. And that’s why humility features prominently in the book. It’s the one attribute that impacts every area of our lives positively. Humility is uniquely leveraged by a Christian worldview. It’s not about earning something; it’s about what’s been done for you. Christianity says it’s not what you do, but what’s done for you, which grows the attribute of humility. It’s a proper assessment of who you are.
Clay Kraby: Who do you see getting the most out of Truth in True Crime? Obviously, it’s applicable to just about anybody. But do you have anyone specific in mind?
J. Warner Wallace: Often, I think about high schoolers because this is the stuff I wish I’d known when I was in high school. There’s a chapter on marriage that talks about why it should be a priority and what to look for. I wish I’d been more thoughtful about it earlier. It’s a book that I hope will help someone see the value in these principles and entertain these ideas earlier in life.
Clay Kraby: That’s excellent. I think people will get a lot out of it. Where can folks go to learn more about you, your work, and pick up a copy of the book?
J. Warner Wallace: I post three times a week at coldcasechristianity.com. For this book, we’ve created additional resources available at truthandtruecrime.com. The book comes with a 30-session, ten-and-a-half-hour case makers course, PowerPoints, Bible inserts, and more. The 16 video sessions and participants’ guide are also available on Amazon and RightNow Media.
Clay Kraby: Excellent. I’ll link to all that in the show notes, including our previous conversations and truthandtruecrime.com. Our conversation has been with J. Warner Wallace. The book is Truth in True Crime: How Investigating Death Teaches Us the Meaning of Life. Thanks so much for joining me once again on the podcast.
J. Warner Wallace: Hey, thanks so much for having me on, I’m indebted to you.